The Daughter of the Sun is HOT

Sup guys

Haven’t done a native american myth in a while
and this one comes with a rather lengthy introduction
so if you want to you can click here to skip to the story

I have been thinking today
(I have done other things besides thinking, just to be clear
I have eaten food and taken dumps and stuff)
I have been thinking because this very insightful lady
posted a very insightful review of this website you are reading
and one of the critiques levied in this review
is that my mythology site
telling the myths I tell, in the particular way I tell them
runs the risk of cultural appropriation
(because I do things like lump all of africa into a single category
and call the lord of the chinese underworld “Chinese Satan.)
and also that I have an unfortunate tendency to slut-shame

Okay so
I’m a middle class cis white dude living in america
I am speedrunning life on basically the lowest difficulty setting there is
and with that difficulty setting comes the power
to offend a billion different kinds of people in a billion different unintentional ways
I mean shit
I didn’t even know what “slut-shaming” meant until a couple months ago
I could pretty much spend my whole life being a total dick and NEVER KNOW
if I didn’t have the internet

The point being
that I know there is this idea in humor
where if a joke offends you you should suck it up because fuck you
but you/I need to face the possibility
that I may be offending you because I have NO IDEA I’M BEING OFFENSIVE
I am acting in good faith here
I like to think I have gotten more judicious with my words
and that I’m helping to spread knowledge and good times
and not prejudice and bullshit
so I really appreciate
when people let me know where my problems are at.


this story comes courtesy of the Tlingit people of the Pacific Northwest
mostly they hang out in Alaska
but not on reservations like most of the native dudes we fucked over
these dudes are majority shareholders in a corporation called Sealaska
with its tendrils all up in the lumber and injection-molded plastics businesses
and this corporation has purchased huge tracts of land for these dudes to live on

yeah i know
it sort of sounds like a sci-fi plot to me too
but this is what happens when you have a whole secret other america
populated by dudes and ladies who have spent LITERAL GENERATIONS
figuring out lifehacks for not getting totally buried under guns and hamburger wrappers
these dudes have still found time to tell them some stories
so without further ado
ladies and gentlemen
I give you
the one and only
story by the Tlingit people of the Pacific northwest


oh man sorry guys
I am going to have to tease all your cocks a little more
because the daughter of the sun doesn’t show up until the end of the story
and right now we are at the beginning
and at the beginning everybody sucks.

There’s this dude Sun Cloud
he has a cousin named Snow Flower
and being that this is a myth
he is of course all over that shit like zeus on cows
or cows on cows
or cows on your wife
but enough about cows

the problem for Sun Cloud is that Snow Flower is an even bigger cocktease than I am
I do not say this lightly my friends
I am like a fucking snakecharmer for cock
but this girl teases cock like a gradeschool bully in a men’s locker room
Sun Cloud’s all like “Hey girl wanna catch a movie?”
And Snow Flower’s like “Only if you do a million pushups and punch a bear in the nuts”
and then he goes and does those things
and comes back all sweaty and mutilated like “Okay, tits please”
and she’s just like “Hm.

So naturally Sun Cloud gets a little peeved
and the next time Snow Flower tells him to go out and do some ridiculous shit
he’s like “Look
I totally see what you’re doing and it is not going to fly”
and Snow Flower is like “Aw but if you just do one more thing I’ll totes slip you some tongue”
and Sun Cloud is like “OKAY SOUNDS PLAUSIBLE
and she’s like “Just get your hair cut, that’s all”
and Sun Cloud is like “Holy shit, that’s all?”

But then he remembers
that in his village
the only people with short hair are the SLAVES
and facial recognition is nobody’s strong suit
so naturally Sun Cloud is faced with a quandary
make himself indistinguishable from a SLAVE
or give up on trying to bone his cousin

and the kicker is that he goes back over to her place
like “Hey I got rid of all my hair
so now it won’t get tangled in our mouths when we smooch
your hair will still probably do that though
so like, tie it back maybe?”
and Snow Flower is like “I AIN’T TYIN’ BACK SHIT
so that’s a pretty decisive “no,” i think.

Obviously this does not make Sun Cloud happy
so he’s moping his way back home
when an old woman pops out of her house like DUDE
and he tells her EVERYTHING
minus a lot of the swears
and most of the good similes
and that long preamble at the beginning
but like, all the important parts
and the old woman is like CONGRATULATIONS
so of course Sun Cloud believes her
because remember
this is the dude who believed his untouchable cousin would marry him
if he just punched enough bears and got a haircut

So he follows the road
and he stops at the bottom of the mountain and he’s like man
I’m too scared to climb this mountain
but then he remembers that at the top of the mountain there are boobies
and at the top the gods are like CONGRATULATIONS SUN CLOUD
And there’s three hot chicks
so of course Sun Cloud picks the third one
because that’s how stories work
and he’s totally right and she’s like the sexiest ever
but also she’s just sort of a good person
and that is a rare thing in this world my friends
so Sun Cloud counts himself lucky to have found her
and meanwhile time passes and Snow Flower’s boobs get all saggy
and she doesn’t really have much else going for her so she dies cold and alone
while Sun Cloud and Sun Lady get to be president or something

So the moral of the story
is I know we’ve all done our time in the friendzone
believing with all of our shriveled black hearts
that if we just act real nice and bring lots of presents
we will eventually get to come out of the friend zone
and into what I like to call THE SEX ZONE
but that’s unrealistic guys, that just doesn’t happen
what DOES happen
is you tell your problems to a crazy old woman
and then you get to marry the SUN

the end

39 thoughts on “The Daughter of the Sun is HOT

  1. Pingback: Review: Myths RETOLD – YELLING MYTHS AT THE INTERNET | In Search of the Happiness Max

  2. Hey dude – thanks for your thoughtful comments on my review. I really appreciate a guy who responds in a classy way to being called on his privilege – it’s a rare thing.

    With that in mind, I thought you might like to know that the so-called ‘friendzone’ is seeing an awful lot of heat at the moment, this is a good post that explains why:
    I know in the myth she actually does promise sexual reward in exchange for tasks, but a) it’s problematic to equate this with ‘friend-zoning’ and b) a woman should still be able to legitimately say ‘no’ at any point, even if she’s previously promised ‘boobs’.

    To an extent, it’s the myth itself that’s problematic, as its effectively enshrining an age old mysogynist attitude that women who don’t sleep with men who do ‘nice’ things for them are ‘cock teases’ should be punished (growing old alone – boobs sagging – whatever) whilst so-called ‘nice guys’ will eventually be rewarded by the gods with an even better woman. But uncritically calling what the first woman does ‘friend-zoning’ brings with it a whole wealth of problems.

    Sorry to off-load another critique when you were so decent about the first one – I do appreciate that it can be hard to recognise your blindspots when you have privilege, and it’s not easy to realise implications that you’ve not been exposed to. That’s kinda why I thought it’d be worth mentioning that the word ‘friend zone’ is kinda not cool and has some deeply problematic implications.

    So, uh, I’ll go away now.

    • I CAN’T WIN

      Seriously though, thank you.

      But also Seriously I don’t think I agree on this one. I understand the problems with “cock-tease”, but as far as I’m concerned, “friendzone” is a description of an actual phenomenon that happens. As someone who has both friendzoned and been friendzoned, I think I can say without fear of contradiction that it isn’t a fun experience for anyone involved, and attacking the word used to describe the situation is not going to make the situation go away. When you have romantic feelings towards someone and it becomes clear that those feelings are one-way, you are going to be disappointed. I think that’s independent of gender expectations. I’ve become great, long-lasting friends with some people who have friendzoned me, but at the time, when I realized I’d been friendzoned, my first thought was not “Oh man I am so proud of this person for expressing their sexual autonomy!” My first thought was “Dag, I’ve been friendzoned!”

      But then I got over it, and I think that’s the important part. The problem, I think, is the gender expectations that exist AROUND the term. Like the idea that only girls friendzone, or the whole “cocktease” thing. Friendzone, used properly, is an elegant description of a particular kind of situation, a situation that happens to all kinds of people and makes them all kinds of sad regardless of how enlightened they may be. If a dude is talking to his bros and he is like “man, that bitch friendzoned me,” the problem is not the word “friendzone.” The problem is that that dude harbors some gross opinions about women anyway, and removing a perfectly good word that expresses a perfectly real situation doesn’t fix that.

      (also i changed the moral)
      – Ovid

      • i understand this but???the thing is that “friendzone” evolved from “oh man i really liked this girl and showed her i could be a good boyfriend, but she doesnt like me and couldnt just say it out right, this sucks” to this misogynist thinking of “i did good things for her that count as basic human decency like opening the door for her or doing a favor she asked me AND she hasnt jumped on my dick she is a SLUT fuck that bitch” I understand the situation you described as I’ve seen many times before but the term “friendzone” has been appropiated by misogynistic men who have no basic respect for women and see them as objects, and personally I dont believe you need a term for everything that happens, but thats me

    • Basically, I’m all for feminism. I’m a girl, I don’t like slut-shaming, etc etc.

      I also recognize that if no one said anything that might potentially offend someone or reinforce a negative viewpoint a small majority may have, NO ONE WOULD EVER LAUGH or even have intellectual debates! Sometimes, it’s just all in good fun. You’re assuming everyone who reads the word “cock-tease” is going to absorb all these negative assumptions about women, when Ovid hit it right on the head, the person already has crappy views about women and all those negative assumptions are already present in their mind.

      • Also,f you think about it in that context, you could say the term “friend-zoned” is sexist to males as well, as it implies they are too stupid or too blinded by physical lust to make a rational decision regarding a relationship where they are being used. Males are often portrayed as being overcome by female sexuality and while we complain about men painting us as sexual objects and evil seductresses that cause the suffering or downfall of men in some way, you don’t see men complaining about how sexist this idea that men are too dumb to look past a vagina.

      • Wellll, the word “cocktease” comes with a whole bunch of extra crap that isn’t even included in “friendzone.” SO.

    • I have to disagree with you completely, but not only because I don’t like feminism or liberalism. I think a girl promising boobies then saying no is the same as somebody promising to pay you for a job and then not paying you, they’re the same situation. Well, most jobs don’t pay in boobies, nor are you being paid by a woman in most jobs. Anyways, Slut-Shaming is hilarious, I love you Ovid, don’t change. I have read all of your myths, and they just keep getting progressively more funny.

        • my interpretation is that if you make promises intending to break them, you don’t deserve to be assaulted for it.

          But you still did a rotten thing.

      • Putting this situation in a real life context is HARDLY the same- money is an object. Women aren’t.

        Also- ‘nor are you being paid by a woman in most jobs’? While this may be true if you were to pull out some statistics on it, you’re saying it in such a way that women are below men and it’s unlikely that they would be in a superior position towards men. Really, that comment could’ve gone without mentioning; it didn’t benefit what you were trying to say at all.

        • I just wanted to point out that as an avid Antifeminist, I think girls are icky. Also, women are objects. Anything you can physically hold is an object. Unless they’re ghosts.

          Does anybody have a lock on ghost prostitutes?

          Seems like a damn fine business venture. Or band name.

  3. Hilarious. Warmly waiting for the next myth, specially a Silmarillion one.
    Without the swearing is not that funny though (still funny), so that no one gets offended maybe you should say “man-slut” every time you say slut or something, I don’t know.
    How immature must someone be to get offended by a joke anyways?

  4. Personally, (and speaking as a female) I’ve no problem with how you currently run and present things- as misa said it’s all in good fun. I always find it disappointing when people have to change and adapt to conform into other people’s opinions; this site has always just been a fun thing as it is and I don’t really see how it’s that offensive (though I’m guess I’m of the train of thought of ‘if a joke offends you you should suck it up because fuck you’ because I’m mean and nasty and horrid).

    Also- you’re being called out on your ‘privilege’ and all, and holy shit do I resent that term can everyone please stop trying to force people into classes and make them feel bad about themselves it’s just ridiculous

  5. I, too, side with misa. I feel like even if some words or phrases have negative or hurtful connotations to some people, there’s no reason to assume they’re being used deliberately to be unkind or mean or offensive. As far as I’m concerned (cis white female, for the record), words like ‘cock-tease’ and ‘friend-zone’ also have a primary common meaning, tasteful or no, and they’re very convenient for expressing these meanings–isn’t that why we have those words?

    As far as I can tell (and I suppose I may be wrong), if people are going to read your website and then decide that you’re being willfully hurtful (through negligence or whatever else), they’re missing the joke, and (I think) the point. I’ve never perceived anything on this website as being sincerely bigoted or slut-shaming-y or whatever–you’re just telling stories in the way we’d actually talk!

    I’m sorry if I’ve presumed too much about what you’re doing here, or if I’ve projected what I want to be true when it isn’t. I didn’t mean to preach to the choir or anything, but I wanted to chime in and show my support.

    tl;dr: you’re cool, keep it up, I’m not offended.

    • Sorry for stupid wall-of-text addition, but I want to say I was using “side with” as a way of expressing concurrence of opinion. I know this isn’t attack and defense; I was trying to communicate something very different.

      Sorry I fucked up 🙁

  6. Guys, this is not a question of taking sides. No one is attacking me here. I am not being attacked.

    No, see, the point here is that yes this is humor, and yes I am going to stick to my crude and unusual ways. But thanks to Rhone, I’ve been sitting down and having conversations with friends all day about these words and I’ve been learning things about how they’re perceived. This is a GOOD thing, guys. Learning things is good.

    • Yeah, I don’t think anyone necessarily took it as an attack.

      I read the blog (because I DID think that at first) and it’s a fair-enough critique of the good and “bad” parts of the blog. The point she made about grouping all African nations together, for example, was a valid one since you do make distinctions between European countries. Allow me to add that maybe consider adding distinctions between Native American tribes; Cherokee, Navajo, and so on where possible?

      I, personally, just wanted to throw in my viewpoint as a woman. I’ve never considered this site to indulge in any form of “slut-shaming” and I felt since such a strong term was used, maybe the author of the critique was, as Hynra said, rather missing the point and thinking you as the author really thought that way or encouraged that kind of thinking against women (although I guess you could totally be a woman-hating asshole? I wouldn’t know, really…)

  7. Almost all these myths are set in times when women were seen more as property than individuals. So to update that to modern times and refer to them primarily in the current slang as sexual objects is entirely appropriate. They’re given more autonomy (in general) in the retelling than the original. Reporting misogyny is not the same thing as being misogynistic.

    I have many, many books on fairy tales and mythology, and the references for the origins can be pretty vague for the non-European myths (although the Scandinavian countries tend to get lumped together, too). So that’s not a very fair nit to pick.

    This isn’t scholarly research. It’s humor. You don’t go through a humor site with the AP Stylebook and complain that BOOBIES is inconsistently capitalized, or fret that the retelling of Medea perpetuates the stereotype of women being crazy jealous bitches. If these were original plots and characters, the criticisms would be much more legitimate. As it is, the stories are just funny as all-fuck and I’d hate to see the over-the-top humor toned down in any way.

  8. It’s so great too read all these comments from enlightened people just trying to get along and talk sense. I mean just look at this! It’s beautiful. I really like the point about how certain phrases themselves aren’t the problem and it doesn’t do any good to get all hung up on them.

  9. As a professional Lurker (hence the name) I really appreciate the reasonable and balanced discussion were having here about this topic. It makes me proud to be a member of the group of people who reads this blog. WHICH IS THE TEATS BY THE WAY!

    • Keep in mind everyone, that there are parts of the US(where Ovid seems to be from) where “guys” or “you guys” is gender-neutral.

      • I always call folks “dudes” or “guys” (and I am female) and the only one who objects is my mother. ‘Cause she’s persnickety.

        • I was born with a vagina and I always call my female friends guys.
          It’s just a normal thing at this point.
          “Guys. GUYS. Stop everything and tell me what your opinion is on this movie.”
          “Guys, let’s go.”
          One of my female friends actually calls me ‘bro’, I have no idea why.
          Anyways, I share Ovid’s opinion on friendzones; they are a thing that exists, but some people are just misogynistic and take someone’s lack of romantic feelings for them as a personal insult.
          I hope to see more Tolkein- maybe you could do LOTR as a myth?
          The Sherlock Holmes ones are my favorite. I’ve read them SO MANY TIMES. They’re the best.

  10. there was a point a few years ago when I paid a lot of attention to people who said I was an asshole. they kept finding reasons that I was an asshole and I dutifully dealt with them.

    I gave fucks about the things I was told that I should give fucks about. I handed them out like candy or Jehova’s Witness tracts. I enthusiastically sought out new things to which I could distribute my fucks.

    I caused a crisis. I had given out so many fucks that I had singlehandedly caused fuck inflation, or “fuckflation”. there were many of my fucks available all over the place, but they were individually of little real value.

    soon, my fucks had become worthless fucks. people did not give a fuck that I gave a fuck, and therefore exchange became difficult. soon, my brain’s Central Volitional System began to decline my fucks in favor of its own internal, “beer and reefer”-based currency.

    in a panic, I began to reduce the number of new fucks issued. this policy proved disastrous, as a steady supply of fucks is needed to stimulate action for things like feeding the dog or showers. attempts to lower the values of existing fucks were met with rage and death threats from creditors.

    now, I am undone. the value of my fucks has collapsed. the machinery of fuck production has failed. I can give no fucks.

    the moral of the story is that infinite growth is impossible and when people give you complements you really do have to make sure they’re not “love bombing”.

    • This makes me think two things.

      One: That’s a really great life lesson with very fun delivery. Thank you!

      Two: I think I understand more about economics now. Neat!

  11. Aaaaah Ovid you are too wonderful. When you mentioned what a feminist had commented at the beginning of your story, I was like “Aw geez here comes the hurricane” Because lots funny guys on the internet I’ve seen can respong so violently to being called out on jokes that might be offensive or sexist because a feminist pointed it out, because they don’t realize the gravity of them and many people often think that feminist=man hating evil. It’s all too often I’m like “But I love you and your stuff and than you do and say this?!!” and it breaks my heart. But THANK YOU FOR BEING SO MATURE ABOUT IT AND AWESOME YOU’RE A GODDESS

  12. Pingback: Mary Magdalene is the Sexiest Apostle | Myths RETOLD

  13. Ovid I love your blog even more since I saw your response to the reviewer, you are clearly an awesome dude. As someone who has been friendzoned and never done much in the way of friendzoning (I don’t think?) maybe this might add to your discussion on the subject?
    I totally see and agree with your point, but the whole friendzoning concept really bothers me now that I’m not an angsty 15 year old any more.

  14. I don’t usually like most mythology, because in most of the stories the hero’s a bastard, the ladies are evil or inanimate, Deus ex machina is the only thing that ever moves the plot and that would all be sort of perversely interesting except the modern author is treating it with such reverence. like it’s this beautiful fucking literature or something. It makes me sick. But you, Ovid, write it like the junior-high bathroom wall scrawlings that it is. I love that. I think what you do (calling myths out on their bullshit) is PRO-SOCIAL. Like the Kool-Aid man said, reporting misogyny is not the same thing as being misogynistic. It’s normal retellings of myths, that cover up the filth in flowery language and passively accept the hero/villian roles originally prescribed, that are bad for society.

    If you want to reevaluate the way you think/talk about women more power to you. We should all be so self-reflective. But I can say as a female and a moderate feminist that you’ve never offended me.

    • I definitely agree with this. Glossing over myth bullshit and endlessly perpetuating the bullshit is nowhere near as good for society as leaping headfirst into the myth bullshit, making it pretty clear that bullshit is horrible stuff, and at the same time still enjoying the same visceral pleasure from all the tits and explosions that made people tell the story in the first place.

  15. Humans are all pretty much the same. In the West, we have historically had male dominated societies and social conversation, and the men by and large all went along with it, because it was good for them. Bad was done, all conversations controlled, freight assigned to every motive, all with the idea of further rewarding men and dominating women, it was a constant of the times.

    That was bad, we as a society have admitted, and we are trying hard to change it.

    However. Humans all being basically the same, many women are not looking for equality at all, but pre-eminence, and to do it they are first attempting to control the conversation, just like the males did in Victorian times. This pathetic idea of “Privilege” is just one strand of it. It is a type of moral collective punishment that fascists would be proud of.

    Very reasssuring to see many women don’t go along with it, because the watchword has to be Equality.

    • This is an ancient thread but I feel like I need to reply.

      First: “privilege” doesn’t mean “you’re the bad guy”. It means “society gives you unfair advantages, and you need to (1) be aware of them, and (2) use them responsibly.” I’d be crazy if I tried to claim that being a caucasian cismale in America doesn’t give me an enormous headstart in everyday life. And because of that, I can’t expect that certain things, even things I find trivial, are necessarily trivial for people who are STILL sidelined and typecast by society.

      And on a more basic level, the problem with aiming for equality is that the thorn is subconscious. Scientifically rigorous studies have shown that resumes with female names get graded worse than resumes with male names, and that it happens no matter what demographic is doing the reviewing. Self-identified feminists STILL grade the resumes with male names higher. The thorn is ingrown. It hides itself from us. It affects our perception of the world in ways we can’t perceive. So, yes, equality is the goal. Equality – women being treated as humans – has been the stated goal of feminism from the beginning. But if we aim for equality, without considering the context, the splinters in our eyes will obstruct our aim, and we’ll never get there.

  16. I’m a bit late joining this conversation, so I don’t know if you’ll see this, but I’m posting anyway because I will explode or melt or something if I don’t:

    Normally I don’t like the “people need to learn to take a joke/people need to stop being so sensitive/you can’t please everyone so don’t try to please anyone/etc.” argument, so maybe I’m being a bit hypocritical, but I don’t think you should change much at all about how you run this site. (I know you already said you’re not going to change your style, so I’m not very worried.) I think Rhube is totally within her rights to point out stuff she disagrees with, and it’s AWESOME to see you take criticism with such grace and to know that one of my favorite people on the internets is a decent person (not that I ever doubted that), but, as the comments show, not everyone agrees with all her criticisms. One of my favorite things about this website is your “crude and unusual ways,” as you put it. It’s one of the few sites where I can go and relax and have fun and enjoy being offended, because I don’t think you’ve ever gone too far, or at least it’s very rare. You do the whole tasteful distastefulness thing so well. I’m glad that you said you disagreed with Rhube’s comment on your use of words like “friendzone” and “cocktease,” partly for the reasons you stated and partly because those words are part of your style. There are places for challenging gender expectations and whatnot, but in my opinion a site dedicated to retelling myths isn’t one of them, though of course you’re in charge here, so it’s your call.

    As for the cultural appropriation thing, I’m trying SO HARD not to get reaaalllly angry at the thought that someone might accuse you of that, because everyone’s within their rights not to want to see their beliefs/culture made fun of, but if someone takes issue with the fact that you retold their myth, there are plenty of other diversions on the internet. I think it’s great that you mock everything equally, but it’s always in a friendly way.

    Another thing I really need to say: as Rhube and others have pointed out, often the stories you’re telling are somewhat offensive in themselves, but that is only to be expected. I REALLY don’t want to be one of those people who criticize other people for being politically correct and talking about privilege and whatnot, but (a) there are better, more relevant places to observe and criticize offensiveness than in myths (b) myths, as you continually prove, have endless potential for reinterpretation anyway (that’s what your snazzy morals are for) and (c) part of what makes this website so much fun is how chill it is about everything. You tell us stories that are ridiculous and creative and exciting and offensive and meaningful and a bazillion other adjectives all at the same time, and we can enjoy the good, bad, and silly messages of these stories and probably die of laughter. It’s a lovely relationship.

    Basically, you’re awesome and while, as you say, learning is good, don’t listen too much to what other people say. You’re awesome enough that you can keep doing what you’ve been doing and be confident that the result will be just dandy. It’s good to try not to be racist or sexist or whatever (which you rarely are), but please don’t get too worked up about that stuff when it comes to your glorious myths. Just keep doing what you’ve been doing for the last three years.

    All right, so I just wrote a rambling essay (seriously, the end of that last paragraph is the 609-word mark) to (1) tell you stuff I’m pretty sure you already knew (2) tell you to continue to do stuff I’m pretty sure you were already going to continue to do, and (3) tell you not to listen to me. But I got my rant out, and the world revolves around me, so I am totally satisfied right now. Keep rocking, dude.

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